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Bear sighting
I'm pretty used to facing down grumpy bears off-hours at the dump. What works best for me is sharp coughs rather than whistles etc. and sort of 'Ali like' feet shuffling. I don't worry much as long as they're not facing me. After a few encounters I know I can crowd them a bit as long as they aren't facing me, and they'll eventually move further away so I can get close enough to fling my stuff in the pit. That's all I want to do and I assume all the bear wants to do is rummage in the pit. It's a fair trade and the bears are just a bit grumpy. If they turn toward me I know I have to back off a bit. I do have my bear spray with me and wouldn't advocate anybody else do this. I learned my stuff from friend who is a bear guide.
Our trouble around here is that we're used to normal bears, but we're in an area used to relocate problem bears from other places--even though relocation doesn't work. We've got a bunch of bear that already have bad habits and are likely on their way back home for the most part. We've had a run this year in particular on bear breaking into people's homes while they are there. I guess it's left to us to shoot them 'cause there's no place else to re-locate them.
My request to people in more populated areas is don't feed bear--intentionally or otherwise. They just associate people with food and end up around here left to us to shoot. The people who hunt them around here's freezers were already full by mid-summer. Most people really don't want to shoot them just to cure a problem 'cause then you have to deal with a stinky dead bear.
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Bear sighting
Couldn't agree more. Bears and a bunch of people, especially people who may not be used to them don't mix and especially if there are cubs around. Two bear were shot in town a couple weeks back and one was a sow with cubs in a school yard. Kids were disturbed and the lettters to the editor debate eventually calmed down. The sow behaved aggressively toward teachers, police were called, the sow was pepper sprayed, got separated from her cubs, became really agitated and was shot. Very tricky shooting bear in a school-yard and not something you want to happen.
I'm not sure what the solution is but I doubt that it's relocation. Even the government seminars guides have to take basically say it doesn't work. Most adults go back to where they came from if they aren't killed by larger bear whose territories they are plonked into. Young ones stay around but already have learned bad habits.
Around here we're pretty bear proofed. We know not to leave any food source outside. We only put vegetable parings etc. into the compost. We store garbage in the basement this time of year. Most people took down all their apples a month ago. Still I must know a dozen people that had bear break in or start to break in to their houses this year. Near as I can figure they are likely relocated bear that only know human habitation as food sources. Since their usual garbage cans, bird feeders, compost bins etc. aren't available are around here, they come inside. Food smells are still around and it doesn't take much. We also know that they'll remember most food sources and check them out next year.
A bear chewed up a friend's boat's plastic can tank. It was likely because he handled the tank when he was fishing. A two-year-old picked up my father-in-laws garbage can box and dumped it even though it hadn't been used for garbage in months. That was a reasonable normal bear though. My 80-year-old father in law took a long while to answer the phone and said he was out chasing off the bear, who checked out his fire barrel and then ambled down the beach. Those sorts of bear we live with OK around here. The ones that don't find anything and then break in we've got problems with and those probably are relocated bear. You can't really tell since most aren't tagged. Cutbacks; there's no vets to tranquilize them. Please give us a hand here and do your own bear proofing. That way maybe they'll stay in the bush or the dumps. The bear already outnumber people here and we just don't need any more.
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Bear sighting
Last year two people were killed by black bear in Canada and that's very unusual. In each case they were alone and moving--one jogging and the other cycling. In each case the bear seemed to be hunting rather than defending. Such incidents are rare and somebody moving at speed alone likely looks like prey to a bear. It may be but it's likely a bad idea to jog alone in bear country or leave small children unattended. It's also a bad idea to run form a confrontation or to 'play dead' if attacked.
There's some research going on to see if there's a genetic component to aggressive black bear behaviour (don't need to answer that question for grizzlies). It may be a case of empty science through. Don't know what they do if it's genetics. Hand out birth control pills to sows that look like they're having a PMS attack maybe.
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Bear sighting
Don't know about brown bear but our NR people talk about mock black bear charges and I saw one years ago by a not quite adult bear. We were coming back to camp and saw a bear in somebody else's camp across a channel between lakes. We canoed over there and sort of chased the bear away but I know that's not permanent-- probably city folks (family with children) and their food wasn't tied in a tree.
The people came back as we were leaving. I said there was a bear and they probably thought we were robbing the camp. The guy stocks up into camp figuring something's going to be something missing and runs into the bear coming back. The bear charges to within about 30' and then veers off into the bush. I don't think the guy was following any sort of informed procedure (just too scared to move) but it worked. I few hours later they broke their camp and were heading back towards the store and without a glance our way or thanks for trying to help. The bear probably came back as they always do once they get on a camp. Best thing is to move camp. My girl friend at the time stopped laughing at me for putting our food up a tree. The canoe paddles too. Beaver like to chew on the handles if they get a chance.
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Bear sighting
A cub seen from 30' and no mom most likely was an orphan. Make noise when in the bush and generally the first thing mom does is chase her cubs up a tree. Make noise and don't approach a tree that has a cub in it and get out oft the way if you end up between them. For the most part she'll tell you she wants you to go somewhere else and give you opportunity to do it. Pepper spray is far from a guarantee against a serious bear but it's better than nothing. It only works from 25' max so it's scary if it has to be used but probably less scary than a handgun.
For the most part bears aren't scary; they're just hungry. No surprises for the bear or the people is the key. Cooking utensils and even toothpaste and deodorant are better off up a tree away from camp--no curious bears in camp and there's less chance of stumbling over each other.
Bears that are familiar with humans may try to intimidate people away from food and they ignore yelling etc. That's what gets them shot around here other than hunting. If they're serious they usually work themselves up for a charge by puffing and swatting the ground--a sure sign to back off.
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Bear sighting
Probably a good idea going off-topic, but I can't quite stop myself from carrying on a bit.
I likely have a different view of bears since I'm around them and also of safety. I think of bear attacks as less real than lighting strikes. I don't ever expect to experience one and I'm more prone than most since I have to move them around to use the dump. I have been chased back to my half-ton along with a bear guide who led the way. We later moved the bear off the pit w/o spray or guns. Still, the chance of me experiencing an attack and defending myself with spray or gun just doesn't seem real to me so it doesn't make much difference if I have spray, gun or nothing.
What seems more real is the chance of shooting myself or somebody else if I carry to protect myself against something that has insignificant chance of happening anyway. People shoot themselves and friends with much greater regularity than bears attack people. The risk is always present and no amount of training or experience eliminates it. At least that's my view of safety. I'd be at greater risk from the gun than from the bears. Spray may not be particularly effective but at least you aren't likely to kill yourself with it when there aren't even any bear around. Others are welcome to different views.
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Bear sighting
Appreciate the eventual calm replies. For the never calm ones, get a grip. If you treat people like me as the enemy you're just helping those that are trying to do unto you and have done unto us here.
A former federal official recently gave an interview about our nutty control and registration system here. What was said is that the policy was to make the system as outrageous as possible. The reason was that the party policy people wanted outraged letters and even better demonstrations from owners. They felt that it would score points for the government with the enviros and crowd. Owners were simply scapegoated to help keep a few low-life politicos in office. Hey, don't help them eh!
There are real use, lore and safety issues that might be good to discuss but maybe it's too difficult. It also doesn't seem very helpful to treat an entire township of bushies as if they don't know what they're doing. Most people spend a lot of time in the bush and we're knee-deep in bears. Nobody here ever takes guns into the bush except for hunting or practice. Protection just isn't an issue. There hasn't been a bear attack in a long while. Well, we do keep track of what's hanging around where, and the ones on their ways to becoming problems just don't last very long.
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Bear sighting
Time to give it a rest I think. For myself, I don't take offense easily and any I do take doesn't last long. I am gong to react to labels applied to me and values attributed to me I don't think fit and are a stretch to get to from what I wrote; and so I did.
I was focused on firearms as tools and the risks inherent in the use of any tool. I never thought my old 9mm (granted a WWII Walther) nor my .45 ACP had enough of a whack to make them very good tools in this hypothetical situation and may end up having a wounded bear in the bush.
But it's all hypothetical and extremely unlikely to happen, so why run any risk? I'm all for tools, and training and experience do manage firearm tools to acceptable levels but risks remain as I can attest to from experience. Never any accidents though except a guy I knew did shoot himself in the leg a little fast drawing. I did that as well but I must have practiced longer before going live. Pretty dumb I guess and so was shooting rats in the county dump with .22 pistols by flashlight, which we did as alternative Friday night recreation. Since I likely owned firearms (if 12-year olds can) before you were born but not in recent years, have I said enough so that making me out as an anti-gun type seems pretty silly?
I did carry my .45 when hunting when I was young. Now I wonder why. It weighted a lot and there never was the remotest use for it. No problem with others carrying if it makes them comfortable and there's adequate training. I'd just as soon not be around though. Dang! Guess I didn't give it a rest. Sorry.
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Bear sighting
Tell you what. I'll say to myself 'Maybe I was wrong about something; maybe somebody knows some things better than I do; maybe I got myself into an unrealistic position and have been just doing ego defense; maybe there aren't any points that need proving or that anybody else needs to listen to. I'll say that to myself, and for myself just put this one to bed and go on from here.'
These 'p-contests' we get into from time to time don't do the site any good. When they're active tractor content drops off. Lord, think how this sounds to anybody who comes here to learn about tractors. I'll ask myself the question 'If this site is about tractors, who cares about how I live, what I've done or what I think and feel?' I'll say to myself 'I'm guilty of ranting and being full of myself, and now I'll just stop.
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10-07-2003, 07:42 
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